How to Empower... Carers at Work
Series 4 Episode 3
In the third episode of series 4 of the How to Empower podcast series, our host Katy Bennett spoke with Katherine Wilson, Head of Employers for carers at Carers UK, and Michelle Beardwood, a Senior Manager in Tax at PwC. Katherine shares her experience working in the field of employment policy and practice, and how organisations can support employees with caring responsibilities, and Michelle shares her experience of caring for her young daughter while working. This episode explores the key issues facing carers today, and shares practical advice for employers and employees to support carers. For more information and support about being a carer, check out the Carers UK website.
Transcript
Katy Bennett: Hello and welcome to this episode of the How to Empower Podcast. I'm your host, Katy Bennett and today we'll be looking at the topic of carers and specifically, people in employment with caring responsibilities. How employers can support their staff and how we all support our colleagues. Today I'm joined by Katherine Wilson, head of Employers for carers at Carers UK. Michelle Beardwood, Manager, Tax PwC. Michelle, if I can start with you. Could you share a little bit about your story and your caring responsibilities?
Michelle Beardwood: I can yes, Katy. I joined the firm in August 2017 and I'd been with the firm just five days when my youngest daughter, Sophie, was showing signs of being really unwell. I took her to A&E and basically, she was diagnosed at that point with type one diabetes. She was also suffering from diabetic ketosis which meant she was very unwell. We had a period of time in hospital and at that point it felt really quite overwhelming because there was a lot of information from the doctors and nurses. There was trying to get her home and understanding what we needed to do with her. She was now going to be insulin dependent and needed to be injected multiple times a day. At that point, work from a PwC perspective was amazing. From the initial Sophie is unwell, to Sophie now needs all the support. My managers were amazing. They just gave me the time and space to be able to go and do what I needed to do. And initially at that point, I thought I'm not going to be able to do this new role, I've just started. I'm going to have to give it up. But my colleagues assured me that whatever support I needed was there. They just wrapped their arms around me and said, you're going to be okay, we're going to support you. And whatever you and your family need, we're there for you.
Katy Bennett: Thank you so much for being here and for sharing. Think I'm sure many listeners like me. I'm a mum and I can't imagine how hard that must have been. Thank you, Katherine, could you tell us a bit more about your background?
Katherine Wilson: It's lovely to be joining you today. I’ve worked in the field of employment policy and practice for several organisations and over several years now for the charity Carers UK, where I lead our work on supporting carers in employment, including our business forum employers for carers of which PwC is one of our founding members.
Katy Bennett: Thank you so much for coming, and I'm delighted that PwC is one of your founding members. Didn't know this before actually. But you've shared with me that 7.7 million people in the UK are juggling their unpaid caring responsibilities with paid employment. What can employers do to help them?
Katherine Wilson: I think there's three key things that come up time and time again in what carers tell us about what helps them. Number one is understanding in the workplace. Number two, flexibility. And number three, information. Just to give a quick example of each, understanding is really about making caring visible in the workplace. So that people understand that you as an employer recognise what caring can mean. And maybe including it in staff surveys, just making it really open. Flexibility, I think comes in two ways for carers. Many of us as carers (and I've been there myself supporting my elderly parents at a distance) need flexibility both in terms of ad hoc emergencies that occur but also sometimes over more ongoing caring situations. Flexible working arrangements and leave can really help in that way. Then thirdly, information, I think it's about the role of the employer in signposting to workplace information that's available to help you as a carer, but also signposting to outside information that can help, maybe health and well-being schemes or carers’ organisations like Carers UK.
Katy Bennett: Thank you. So understanding, flexibility, information. Michelle, does that resonate for you?
Michelle Beardwood: It does. It really does, being able to know where we need to go or who we can talk to or being able to be open and transparent with my colleagues and my line managers, my leadership team about what was happening at home, but trying to prove myself as well at the same time because I was a new employee and that trust element hadn't really started properly yet, but having people try to empathise with what was happening to me outside of the workplace. And being able to have no pressures, so knowing that I was told just to focus on Sophie and the family at home, was invaluable. Felt invaluable. But one of the big things was as the weeks and months went on for me, trying to navigate lots of different situations from medical teams through to school, through to just understanding what it is we needed to do, was actually having support for me there and our health care process that we have available to us at PwC, that really kicked in for us. And having counselling support available actually gave me then the tools I needed to be able to actually manage her diagnosis, what we needed to do, but then also be able to be the person I am at work as well. Yeah, just having a number of things available, but having people being able to show you where you need to go that was amazing.
Katy Bennett: Yeah, that sounds great, and I can really imagine that having almost support to care for you and to help you is a really important part of this.
Michelle Beardwood: Definitely, definitely.
Katy Bennett: Katherine whenever we have listeners, they always ask, well, what's the one thing my company could do? Are there any really practical suggestions that an organisation can do or that you've seen work really well that maybe our listeners can think about for their companies.
Katherine Wilson: I think one of the key things is to actually name the issue. Whether you're a manager, colleague, or whoever in the workplace, just talk about caring. Just mention it when you're talking about support for employee well-being or support for parents in the workplace, just think carer, that wider aspect of caring. Just listening to what you've been saying there, Michelle, just makes me think there's so many different sorts of caring situations. There's parents like you, there's people like me that have been supporting elderly parents, getting more frail and dependent. Many people may have a partner or a sibling with a long term condition. It can be so different, so that's why it's really important to just think about it when you're thinking about support for your colleagues more generally. I think also modelling it is very important where there has been a really good example of good practice. It's really great for example that you're talking about how PwC have supported you, your managers and colleagues have supported you as well as having the information available. I think that modelling it as well. Lastly, I would say reward it as well, where support has been really good in the workplace. It's really good to celebrate that and to talk about it. So it's great that you're talking today about the support you've received.
Katy Bennett: Thank you. I really like that point around naming it. I think that's a real theme actually, we come up again and again is we're just not talking about things, which is why thank you both for being here today. What's really interesting, we were talking about this a bit before we started recording, is actually how universal caring is. It's something that almost all of us will at some point experience whether or not we have yet. And that really changes, I think, how much we can all think about what we can do differently. Now, Michelle, I know you really found a lot of support from networks, and I was just wondering if you’d tell us a bit more about that.
Michelle Beardwood: Yeah, fortunately we have quite a number of different communities within the workplace at PwC. I'm actually part of our space, dawn and our carers network, and I'm in those groups for different reasons. Space is a general parenting group. Our dawn network is for people who are supporting or have disabilities. Then I'm also part of our carers group and one of our founder members of that group. It's been great to be able to be part of those groups, from me having other colleagues that I can talk to that may be going through similar situations. And also just to be able to feel like on those days when things have not gone so well, then you can speak to someone within one of those groups. And then also just to be able to help others who are on different parts of their journey. If someone's new to the group, then we ask them to share a little bit about their experience so that they can actually find others that might be able to support them. But yeah, from that perspective, the communities, and the networks that we have within PwC has been such a really great support for me. And I feel like I'm giving and receiving as well. It's not just about taking out of that group, it's about being able to offer something in there as well.
Katy Bennett: That's really nice. It's lovely to think of it, as you say, about sharing information and guidance, as well as getting support and that mutual relationship. Katherine, you must have seen lots of networks and different ways of doing this. Do you have any reflections on what can work well?
Katherine Wilson: I think it's really interesting hearing what you're saying there Michelle, about that sort of give and take. What can really work well, listening to you, but also thinking about other organisations I've worked with as well, is that theme that if caring hasn't happened to you now, it could well happen to you in the future. If you support your colleagues and show empathy and a little bit of flexibility, the chances are, if caring should come your way, they will give back too - it's very human give and take, isn't it? And I think a lot of us have that in our teams. It's good team working anyway and it's good as colleagues and allies to support that. We also know from our research at Carers UK that two thirds of us will become a carer at some time during our lifetime and most likely during our working lifetime. As you've said earlier, Katy, it's not a marginal issue. It's very much an issue that's everyone's business, really.
Katy Bennett: You've actually answered a little bit of my next question already. You're ahead of the game, but I was going to ask both of you actually, we've talked a lot about what companies can do. I’m sure we're all listening as well as individuals who want to help and support colleagues or indeed friends who are carers. What one or two things can everybody as an individual do that helps?
Michelle Beardwood: I think personally it's about people to be able to share their experiences and feel that they've got a safe space to be able to do that. That they feel supported in some way. That even if that person you're talking to is not the right person, that someone can help them or direct them to the right place.
Katherine Wilson: I think that's a really great suggestion Michelle. Building on that, I would say try to create safe spaces wherever you can, as a colleague, as a friend in the workplace, as a line manager, help to create safe spaces. It's just good practice as a human being to be approachable isn’t it and interested and listening. I think also just having a bit of imagination, the phrase walking in someone's shoes. Just think, well, what would I feel if that happened to me? Just taking a little bit of time to reflect and think, how would I feel and what would really help me? Because it could well happen to you. But even if it hasn't, it's a nice human thing to do, just to think about others and how you're treating others and how you'd wish to be treated yourself.
Katy Bennett: Now we're drawing to an end and we like to finish every podcast with the same question, which is, how do you feel empowered? What makes you feel empowered? I think I sprang this question on. You're both thinking about it right now I can tell, no pressure. Michelle, any reflections?
Michelle Beardwood: What makes me feel empowered is just being allowed to be open and transparent and honest about where I am and who I am, but also what's going on, on the wider scale for me. Just being allowed to be those is great.
Katherine Wilson: I think following on from that what makes me feel empowered is seeing other people who are clearly talking about their own experiences and own lives and feeling empowered. And that's really motivating and encouraging when you see other people in similar situations or different situations just talking about things, outside work as well as in work, that are really helping.
Katy Bennett: Wonderful. Well, thank you both so much for joining me today
Michelle Beardwood: Thank you Katy.
Katherine Wilson: It's been a real pleasure. Thanks very much.
Katy Bennett: That draws us to the close of another episode of how to empower. This has been another great conversation and I'd like to thank Katherine and Michelle for joining me. For more information. Please do look at the Carers UK website. Thank you to our listeners. If you'd like to keep up to date with future episodes, please like and subscribe.
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